Today’s guest is not afraid to try new things - and our conversation gets personal. Let me introduce you to Sean McCoy. He is married to his BFF Lisa, father to Emma, Ethan and Kennedy and friend to many. He was Born and raised in Houston, TX and currently lives in Richmond, TX. He Spent 6 years in the Navy and has been in the oil and gas industry for almost 18 years. He has also Spent 3 years as an entrepreneur for a social enterprise and recently leaned into the technology industry where he is currently working on implementing tech to impact worker health, safety and security for their customers.
He’s helped launch a Tech-based podcast called the 7th Ward Speaks. There’s amazing stuff is happening there right now - you can get the link to the 7th Ward Speaks podcast in the show notes.Support the show
[00:00:00] Jessica: Sean. Thank you so much for being our guests today. We appreciate you being on
[00:00:05] Sean McCoy: the show. It's always a pleasure to get the invite. So thank you, Jessica, for doing that.
[00:00:10] Jessica: Absolutely. So, Sean, I guess I first met you when I did your podcast.
[00:00:15] Sean McCoy: Is that right? Yeah. So you remember Neil Matthews, my buddy, who you were on his podcast for other people's shoes.
And, uh, just like it, just as these things go, I was telling about this, this, this new professional podcast I was doing and the spirit of that, that I was looking for, you know, voiceover kind of just kind of mentioned that and he's like, oh, I know somebody who's, let me introduce you to Jessica. And so that.
That was the beginning and you've done a wonderful job for
[00:00:38] Jessica: us. And I love your music. Your, your intro music is fantastic. You know, the artist as well.
[00:00:44] Sean McCoy: Yeah. So it's, we kinda made it a personal affair. I just believe that's kind of when those touches, that makes a lot of sense. So I had a personal podcast for about three years and one that I told you about, and one of the gentlemen I got to meet with in that world and was on his podcast.
His brother is a hip hop, [00:01:00] motivational hip hop artist out of Baltimore named Anthony Parker. His name is performing him, his wordsmith. And so I literally reached out to him and said, here's what we're doing. Here's kind of what it's about. Uh, and that's all I told him. I said, and I just let him go with it.
And then that's what he came back with. And we haven't touched it. We haven't messed with it. And it was really amazing. I don't know. It's one of those things when you see it. And I've had it happen to me one time before my personal podcast, a friend of mine who became a friend who was a guest on the show, he just, he actually offered her.
A little acoustic guitar intro for me, it was beautiful. So when you can make it personal like that, and you can add to it, like I like telling people that I know you and Anthony and that kind of stuff. So it just makes it worth it. That's
[00:01:41] Dave: cool. So how many podcasts do you currently have is the oil and gas.
And then do you have a couple other ones too? Is that right?
[00:01:49] Sean McCoy: I had a, I had a personal one that I started called come to the table back in 2017. And it's on sabbatical at the moment, just from a, from a time and effort standpoint, I spent three years, uh, [00:02:00] well, over a hundred episodes on that one. And I'm currently helping co-host and produce a podcast called tint theology.
Um, and one of the people that I got to meet in that world, the faith-based world around podcasts is a political theologian of theologian. Um, he's from Canada and he's in the UK. His name is Stephen Backhouse and I, and when I became friends and he wanted to start this podcast based on his, his work, his life's work.
And he's like, I don't think about podcasts, but you do. So would you help me in which I've done many, many, many times to many, many people and. So now I'm helping him produce a podcast of the UK. So, yeah. And then there's the professional one that I do for the oil and gas global network is called elevate and Jessica was very kind to do the intro and the voiceover on that.
And we basically focus on, I don't know if you're aware if you have any, especially in the corporate side of business, but, uh, ESG, environmental, social and governance issues have always been around, but they have taken on a rather significant, uh, presence in business over the last two years. [00:03:00] A very. Very sudden and abrupt, uh, kind of front of the line.
And they're in, it's a, so it's a very interesting time in that, in that context. And so we were already preparing to do this podcast about that topic before. And so while the timing hit, uh, it was kind of a it's fortuitous in a way, but it's a very busy market out there. A lot of people talking and a lot of confusion.
[00:03:21] Dave: That's really cool. So it's interesting because just even taking that step, because you had never done a podcast before you were doing your personal one and he started these podcasts and it seems like the opportunities kinda spring forth, like this one with this, uh, theologian came up and some of these opportunities, um, was that an easy process for you to get into podcasting?
Like, do you feel like your. And outgoing personality type that you enjoyed speaking to people, or was that, um, like a difficult thing? I know you've talked about, um, fear and anxiety and some of those things, uh, was that something you had to work through to do this or
[00:03:57] Sean McCoy: a great, great question. And I would say a little bit of a little bit of [00:04:00] both.
I think that there was some balance in there. Um, definitely, uh, the nature of the podcast I did in the very beginning, uh, was basically this invite was based off the sidewalk prophets song about coming to the table was kind of the inspiration. The idea was just. The division that has always been around.
Um, you know, when's the last time you sat with somebody that was homosexual and was the last time you sat with somebody who was a different political affiliation than you, different race, or just had a different opinion or different life experience. Um, and when did that somebody actually. And I just noticed in my life through travel and just everything else that it was really, really essential to do that.
And so it, wasn't hard to go in, into that space to want to have that kind of conversation, the fear and anxiety with a lot of it would come from, you know, how do I sound? I hate the sound of my own voice. I worry about it. Even though I get people like we always, we all do. Right. Cause I listen to like Jessica, like, oh, her voice is amazing.
[00:04:56] Dave: 10 o'clock at night when the kids aren't asleep yet. [00:05:00]
[00:05:00] Sean McCoy: Right. When is it right when it's called? Not stressed out. Yeah. So, so in a, but in a way, so in that, and also there's a little bit of imposter syndrome, I guess you could say, like, who am I right. Who might add, who cares? What I think, who cares?
What I have to say. Um, and, but, but it's been a, the one part about. I think you all have experiences, obviously as well. There's something therapeutic. There's a connection. When you have to hear somebody's voice in your, in your ear, not just read words off a piece of paper or, or kind of your static video kind of thing.
When you get to really hear them. And it's about a topic, there's a connection there that happens. It goes beyond just the knowledge side and it, and especially when you do it in a sense of trying to connect. And not just inform and you can do both. So I was, I was excited about that and excited about the journey of it, the fear and anxiety just came across, you know, just in terms of, do I know what I'm doing?
We were talking about earlier, did I hit the record button, all that kind of stuff. And I still
[00:05:51] Jessica: worry about that. Like I keep looking back and checking again.
[00:05:55] Sean McCoy: Right, right. And so I would say those basic things, but I think it was more of a, [00:06:00] uh, to your point. Uh, what is open for me is, is it place I would have never in my life thought at 47.
You know, being paid to do a podcast and by any stretch of imagination. Yeah.
[00:06:11] Jessica: Well, when we were kids, you know, podcasting wasn't even a thing until the last 10 years.
[00:06:18] Sean McCoy: Yeah. And I even think in that context that we know, even when they first came out, I listened to him back in the two thousands, it was famous people or comedians or people that you thought kind of had kind of made sense.
The idea that you and I could grab a mic and do something was kind of this. I mean, it should've made sense to us, but I think it was a blind spot for a lot of people. Opportunity-wise and so it's been a great thing to watch.
[00:06:38] Dave: Technology technology has really leveled the playing field quite a bit, too.
Cost of entry is really easy now for people. So.
[00:06:47] Sean McCoy: And I think in that same vein, not for any other reason than just cause I mean, an apple, I don't know if people understand, you know, they, David had an open, open format for content, you know, they, they, podcasts had been free from the beginning. [00:07:00] So that's been a big, uh, big, huge without that.
I mean there's no, if it was more like radio, it was paid and isolated. I don't think it'd be anywhere where it was. And so that's a, that's a big part of it. I agree
[00:07:11] Jessica: now, Sean there's, um, you are really passionate about transforming knowledge into wisdom. Can you dive into that a little bit and explain what you mean by that?
And how do you transform knowledge into wisdom? What does that mean? What does that look like?
[00:07:27] Sean McCoy: Sure. So one of the big aspects of my life that's taken on a, I guess, a deeper understanding, or I've always wanted to know, like, why are we here? I think everybody does on some extent to some extent, but it's for me, it's.
By the most pressing question ever, like all this stuff aside, I'm a big student learning and big student of people and all these things experiences and they all, they're all wonderful. But then there's always this hanging question that I think always all of them in that is, you know, what is our, what are we supposed to do while we're here?
What is this gift we've been given? And so. And Paul part of that journey and all the different areas and learning and stuff like [00:08:00] that, which I could spend way too much time getting it brought me to a point where that of gives the parameters on what I think life is truly about. There's a gentleman that I came across in the podcasting world, his name's Alexander, John shy, and he's got his work is called quadratus.
Yeah, I'd say it's his work, but he'd even say it's not, it's more of a revelation of kind of the frequency and the rhythm of life. And he studied with Joseph Campbell and when he was at university of Notre Dame and Joseph Campbell was a gentleman who. I talked about the hero's journey. It's kind of the ancient myth.
It doesn't does amazing work that he's done, but he was the inspiration, the George Lucas to use, to write star wars and all the rest of this stuff. And if you start looking at the patterns of stories, what it does is basically you may be familiar with it. So it gives you that rhythm. And so, and so Alexander had used that, uh, inspiration around the hero's journey and looked at it from a, from a faith standpoint and things of that nature, just from a kind of a human experience standpoint, because I think one of the edges and not to pick on a Joseph Campbell's.
Hero's journey. But I think when we use that word [00:09:00] hero and we have in the way that perceives it is it's a, it kind of puts things over there. Like, well, I'm not a hero, so it's not my journey. It's about Luke Skywalker or, you know, inter your famous, you know, hero here. Uh, and so instead of it being applicable to everybody, it's kind of, it's kind of isolated.
And so I like Alexander's work where it goes back into this idea that it's, no, this is everybody's journey. And if you really start looking at it, we all. We all are on these paths of transformation. We're on these paths of evolution. It's, it's kinda like I looked at it like the plants and things of nature.
Like no matter what happens, there's this continual rhythm and growth cycle and, and, and the just continues to go through. And that is transformation. If you look at the seasons and you look at plants and animals and where, what you think in these kinds of things, it's this constant journey of. Evolution and transition.
And so, so for me, it was recognizing that in the big, the big parameters in that equation and not to simplify it, but your heart and your mind and your body and those [00:10:00] things dictate the way that you go on that journey and how you understand transformation and what that means and how you can take basic knowledge.
And just so I've told you something, well, here it is great, but what. To churn it and you have to go through it. You have to understand it. If you tell me that you've, if you've gone through something and you've suffered or, or that I'm suffering from something, what is, what for, I don't think it's as simple as well.
I just was in the wrong place at the wrong time, or I made a mistake or that life is not about that, that tempering and that. That transition it's it's, we're meant to experience those things. And so, so for me, it's, it's, it's allowing for, uh, contemplation and understanding of all your basic data crunching.
If you want to make it brutal, kind of like real world in a sense, because it's not just about having data, but it's about now I have to analyze that data and understand what it means while in a personal world. I just went through this experience or I've gone through these experiences or all of these things.
I just [00:11:00] don't think you can go through. Uh, and not have something. Impact you and make a change and make it make some sort of, you know, kind of this, it just does something in my, in my experience. I think recognizing that, and then diving into the parameters that make that happen and understanding why acted a certain way?
Why am I emotionally vulnerable in this sense? What does this piece of information or this experience mean? And how do I add that to these other experiences that give me this kind of this knowledge base and then from there. Okay, great. Now what now? So you have all the, so here's the it's it's, it's this whole thing of like the encyclopedias contained infinite knowledge, but no wisdom.
It's just sitting there, but you have to do something with it. So what does that, how do we extrapolate out that? And I think that's where empathy. And sympathy come through. And then I think that allows us to develop a different perspective. And I don't want to say a better perspective. What are the big elements around that is getting rid of dualism in a way where we start to think that.
It has to be one way or the other. And we see that in so many [00:12:00] areas of our lives personally, and in community where dualism is, it creates this division and this gap, and it just sits there and it's stagnant and it's not, it's not beneficial. It's not harmonious. It's not beautiful.
[00:12:13] Dave: It's beneficial to media, certain corporations, a lot of money from it.
You make money
[00:12:19] Jessica: off of fear. They're killing
[00:12:21] Sean McCoy: it. Right. And so I think the answer to that, cause it's like, we're, we're an immediate world and I understand the medium world it's easy and, and they are, they're just, they're playing the game the way that they set it up. The key though. And I think where the wisdom comes in is record saying, okay, that's their model.
So it's up to me to engage in that or not. Right. It's a supply and demand works both ways. It's not just picking on one or the other. So can I turn the, can I turn it off it? Look, I fight like heck all the time to try to keep, you know, I try to get as far away, it's like tractor beams and they're everywhere you go.
It's all in your face. No matter how hard you try. But I think if you can try to do it, engage at the least possible and not let it have as much impact. [00:13:00] I mean, just something as simple as finding a new site that just says nothing but good news. Right. And just read it and say, wow, there is right. Wonderful amazing things happening in, in the world.
Not just terrible life-ending, uh, information that we get from the media. But I think, I think, I think that's the essence of why we're here is to take this, these life experiences that we have. And don't just let them sit, you know, on a, on a shelf somewhere and just engage with them. And. And understand them and break them and try to, what does this and what can I do with this?
And then, then I think taking it in that evolution happens in can happen. It doesn't necessarily have to happen. Um, cause I don't ever want people to think like, oh gosh, I'm not having these amazing transitional moments. It doesn't always have to be that it doesn't have to be grandiose. It doesn't have to be massive and big and you don't have to be, you know, it's not creating the theory of relativity.
It could just be recognizing, wow. I have a, you know, I, I have an issue around this, right. I've I've I recognize that, uh, this thing makes me mad. [00:14:00] Temptation here, or this really makes, gives me some sort of fulfillment, all that, you know, and not looking at it from a positive or negative, just understanding that kind of stuff.
So that's done. It was a bit long-winded, but that's kind of that
[00:14:11] Dave: it's actually, it's actually like just taking the time to eat. Acknowledged or recognized those things. Cause I think that is one of the issues is our lives are so busy and so full of distractions we don't ever even. And I think that's part of media and, um, big businesses goal to keep us distracted so that we're using that to fulfill those things instead of actually taking the time to contemplate and to grow.
Yeah, I think, I mean, even just having some critical thinking and yeah, I think that all definitely ties together and that's how we tell
[00:14:46] Jessica: our kids all the time, use your brain, you know, think
[00:14:50] Dave: about it discernment.
[00:14:52] Sean McCoy: And I think it's also important, uh, because I think so many times, but we're taught about, you know, using our brain and I'm not dealing, not disparaging, but we're, [00:15:00] we're also.
We don't bring in the emotional side very well. And I'm sure you all do I get that from y'all, but, but I think in this, this ties into ESG, this ties in the corporate world, you know, we become very data centric. We become very, like, just give me the facts. You know, you're talking about your assaults back to business.
It's just about profits. It's, you know, Milton Friedman all over again. And I'm just, and for me, it's just, it's incomplete. It's not wrong, right? It's not wrong. It's not there. Those things are. It's limited, but you're limiting, it's like putting a period where there should be a comma. Can you, what else? Okay, great.
So, you know, I'm in the oil field and I've been for 20 years and you know, we're, we're supposed to be all about facts and everything else, but every time I look on LinkedIn, everybody's having an emotional reaction to everything and, you know, flipping out one way or the other. And I'm just, and that's my, one of my big, when I'm on panels and I do stuff in the industry, I'm always pushing back.
Like we've got to stop being. And I've heard this all my life because I'm around engineers and super smart [00:16:00] PhD, mega PhDs, and people like this. And they just want to have either that, or it's the finance side and everybody's just like day-to-day to data. And I'm like, there's a human being. Like there's people there.
There's a give that emotional side. It's just do as well. Bring it along. Don't replace it or overdo it. I think basically it goes back down and understanding what you're alluding to a little bit earlier, Dave, which is, we don't know what enough is anymore. We just have everything word, fifth gear going a hundred miles an hour and have no idea where we're going.
[00:16:29] Dave: Yeah.
[00:16:30] Jessica: Speaking about having nowhere where you're going her fifth year, you referenced, um, completing a solo 100 mile ultra marathon. Congratulations. That's an amazing feat. Um, and I see how maybe this kind of plays into everything. So all the things that you've been saying, the emotion that goes into this, this wisdom that you gained from knowledge.
Did you have that before you did the ultra marathon? Or is this something that came out of that? [00:17:00]
[00:17:00] Sean McCoy: I would say it's part of it, you know, it's, it's, uh, it's just continuum, right? It's like adding drops over the years. I like it probably in the beginning years, the drops weren't very frequent, very small in terms of, in terms of accumulating wisdom and stuff like that.
And then, uh, you know, it's kinda one of those things after a while that slowly calls and there's a few things in the bucket, right? There's a, there's a, it's getting a little bit more full. It just didn't, it just transitioned over time. But that, that experience was a culmination. And it was also completely new at the same time.
It was, uh, one of the most poignant experiences in my life. I'm not a runner. I'm not, I'm not, I told you I'd done one half marathon before that. So I wasn't this guy who spent decades building up with PRS and had run Boston and you know, like I was, you know, this is my next step up, and this is going to be the ultimate goal.
This is, it was based on back to the emotional and experience side. Um, I've been heavily involved in nonprofit world and through the business world, I met my wife through this foundation. It helped raise money for pediatric cancer research. [00:18:00] I knew I knew kids had families. I knew kids that had made it.
I'd watched kids for years up until that point. Um, living. Uh, with cancer, multiple, you know, fight it multiple times only to lose a young lady named Alice Hoffman, who was very, I was very close to, uh, passed away when she was 18, but I w I supported the foundation and our, our president actually was, was the guy I'm talking about.
If you ever look up Kevin Klein, he was a radio DJ down here in Houston, and his uncle is the actor as well, but he, um, he looked like he ran his resume on running is just. It boggles the mind, like in one of them give you an idea. He ran across the state of Texas. He ran 472 miles in 13 days in 2009 from Dallas to Austin, to San Antonio, to Houston.
And I was the guy in the truck behind him and I planned the whole thing. So I was a part of his swag. So I suppose I supported him in a lot of what he was doing, but I was always wanting the car going. This is nuts. Like he ran away. He ran a marathon and a half every day for almost two weeks. So [00:19:00] wait
[00:19:00] Jessica: a minute, wait a minute.
A marathon and a half a
[00:19:03] Sean McCoy: day for 13 days.
[00:19:06] Jessica: Is there enough hours? Are there enough hours in the day to run a marathon?
[00:19:10] Sean McCoy: Yeah,
[00:19:11] Dave: it's just like that six or seven hours.
[00:19:14] Sean McCoy: No, it it's. It's just what you think it's like. It is, it is. It's it defies logic, even before we did it, he came to us. When we first, I didn't even know that you ran more than a mile, a marathon.
I didn't even, I thought everybody stopped at 26.2. I was like, you're right. Like, why would you keep going? You're dead. Yeah, exactly. So all the jokes, all the stuff. And so. So for years, that was in 2009. And then I didn't do the ultra til 2017. So for eight years or so, about seven years, I was on the sideline just by now.
He did other things. He is the only American that has run. There's a, there's an ultra marathon in Italy. That goes from like the upper Northwest. It's like 154 miles. You have to finish it in a certain time. He's the only Americans ever done that. Uh, he's ran a marathon like in every state he's he's done.
He, his last one, he [00:20:00] just did. And he's actually retiring. He ran up to the north slope to the Arctic circle and. But he all, he did it all to raise money and awareness for pediatric cancer. And so that's, I was his, and so he had met a girl, a young lady at Chelsea Campbell years before that they literally changed his life.
And so, so the intimate story of that is my wife who had my wife at the time, was working for the cancer center and got to know him. So all. So, and then I met her and him, him and I got connected through softball. And when I was at slumber J and doing all these tournaments, I was really active in the event side and support side.
I have to know him, meet her. You know, here's your, all the stuff culminates. And then I got motivated about seven years in, um, it's just, I guess, how can I put it? Um, my wife actually signed me up for the half marathon. I didn't want to do that even in the military. I didn't love to run. And so, but it was an amazing experience because it pushed me into areas that I was not comfortable in.
Like I didn't want to run. I didn't, I didn't. I mean, it was, I just never, never enjoyed it, but I pushed myself. And so [00:21:00] pushing yourself in those areas that you're doing. Comfortable with as well back to the knowledge it was in part of that transition as well. I think a big part of it can be if there's that point, that thing you don't like, like I'm not, I'm not telling you to eat.
No man is, if you don't like it, but I'm saying if it's within reason and it maybe there's a discomfort or it's, there's just something happens. I think when you test waters that are unknown and it goes back to that transformation, it goes back to that. There's those paths we walk by and there's a little bit of an opening it's at first step and we see.
We think, ah, what's it like down there, we don't have to go down, but this became this, it became this thing of, um, I was, I was also inspired by the kids because at the same time, uh, you know, running or completing a hundred mile ultra marathon, I got, I, I got to choose to do it. I had, I've trained for almost a year, had a massive support.
During the event, the support and the people around it sat around. Amazing. There was a lady, uh, Becky Spalding who became my foot, the foot whisper saved. My, even though I lost half my [00:22:00] toenails, she was this amazing source of it in their stories there behind her. Because part of the thing too, is that I had a physical issue and it made and got through the marathon.
I don't even know how outside of just the normative side. But pushing yourself in those areas around things that you're just not used to, and you're not comfortable with, it's going to make you vulnerable. It's going to make you redefine these things that you think you have. And so many times we get wrapped up in tradition and we don't know a different way and we get comfortable.
And so I think part of that is just, is this pushing that, and that this. So there was all those things at once back to your original question, Jessica, because there was lots of reasons I wanted to show up. I was inspired. Um, cause when you, when you do this kind of stuff, yeah, it's hard. But kids that have cancer, people that get diagnosed with diseases, they didn't get asked to do that.
They showed up on a Tuesday and a doctor in a lab coat tells them they have, you know, a neuroblastoma or osteosarcoma or, you know, stage four in differentiated sarcoma or whatever happens to be. [00:23:00] And this 12, 13 year old kid and their whole family, they weren't planning on this at all. And so for me, it was a sobering aspect of like, uh, there's also a part of it, kinda like this is the motivational kind of kick your own butt thing with.
So why can't you go do that again? Cause you know, I don't want to run that far. It's a long way or I'd rather get my car and drive it hurts. Right, right. And so, so part of that in, in it's part of the things in the event and stuff is nice, not just. Running it like there's a, there was a track and it was a three quarter mile track was 123 laps, uh, to get to the batter miles.
So it was like the human hamster wheel and it's scenery. It's just like, oh no, you get to know every blade of grass, every there's Bob again. Right. And there's people like the people that you go through it with. I mean, at first you don't know them at the end of it. They're your brothers and sisters.
[00:23:48] Jessica: Yeah.
Pushing you to keep going. You can do that.
[00:23:52] Sean McCoy: No. And so that, that part of it comes into it and all these other things. And then you start to realize, and then they had pictures of kids, you know, that you're, as you're walking around and it reminds you, and [00:24:00] some of those kids or just faces on it, like you knew him, you know him, you know, that kid made it, that kid is not here anymore.
So if I get tired, you know, and so for me, it was, and then the whole, that whole thing didn't, it was just a sort of complete, it was not put into words. It was just. 'cause I still don't know how I did it. And I don't mean that like, I'm so cool. I mean that like physically, like how is that possible right now in my body got better over the, over the two over the, over the time period instead.
And there was a point and it's a really, if you've ever experienced this it's there's this, it was surreal. Things were like, I had a choice. I felt like there was this one moment on the third. That's the one towards the end where I felt like I, I w I had a chance to kind of go one of a couple of directions.
I was either going to kind of go down that, like being down and I turned it up and went harder. I kind of like told my body, no, this is 84 [00:25:00] miles in. And it, and it happened. So it's a weird, it's a look that doesn't mean it's gonna happen every time. It doesn't mean that I'm special. I still struggle to know why, what happened.
You know, there's part of me that feels like it was a, we talk about angels coming down and doing things and, you know, God's hand and things of that nature. And, uh, I do struggle with that because then I think, well, why, why has God over here on this track? Why he should be back in because there's kids with cancer right now.
I'm okay. Go over there. So this, but, but I can also say. There are things that you see that, that the same goes. If you want to, if you want to talk to God, you run a marathon. If you want to see God, you run an ultra. That's true.
[00:25:39] Dave: Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I have run a marathon and only one marathon. I don't know if I'll ever do it again, but I had a similar experience.
I think it was one of the most emotional things I've ever experienced at the end when it was finally over. Just the same thing. Like how did that, cause I was, I got injured at about mile. 16, I think. [00:26:00] And so I was in a lot of pain, the whole rest of the way that it was literally like a mental battle. And it's amazing what your mind can do to push you through.
And it's about your attitude and the way that you think about that. And, and I've convinced you that there's, he really can't grow unless you're going through something that's challenging. Like I don't, I don't know how you grow without an obstacle or a challenge or something that's difficult. Um, I mean, just.
Maintaining the status quo and that's what you get you, there is no growth there. And I'd
[00:26:32] Jessica: like to add to that too. Um, yes, there's no growth if you don't have pain or this force against you, but you also need that community to help you push forward to. Right. And then back to the, um, the storyline that you were talking about, like a narrative, you have the force that's against you, and then you have, you have the, the.
You know, who comes in and tries to help push you forward,
[00:26:59] Sean McCoy: you know? [00:27:00] I don't know in that same way. So yeah, no, a hundred percent. And if you have a community and this is where life is beautiful, because if you have, I think more, the more people that are truly along with you that come in different facets, it just strengthens all of us.
It is a strength in numbers you have versus the individual kind of thing. It reminds me of a story. If I can just sit real quick to your point, to your point, Dave, you ever look up a, they did a biosphere experiment, African how many years ago, but the idea was, can you basically create this. Bubble of earth or whatever.
And they, they created this Africa. It was really big out in Arizona or something. Yeah. Yeah. So it failed. And the one reason it failed was something that they didn't understand. But I think it, I think it holds true in what you're saying. So the trees were growing and then they would get, they would grow and then you'd get to a point where they would kind of outgrow themselves and what would happen.
They basically get top heavy and they would fall over and all the trees were doing this and they couldn't get it to stop inside the biosphere. Until somebody realized there was something that was missing. [00:28:00] There's no wind in a biosphere. Right. And so what happens when you burn, when the wind comes in, it creates, it causes the trees to not, it only breaks off branches that are dead or not doing well or whatnot, but it makes it its roots sticking to the ground harder.
That stress is exercise. Yeah. It's like, you're not going to, you're not going to grow with them. Right. And yet we keep telling ourselves, oh, well the goal is to get super comfortable and I don't even want it to lift a finger. And as I make money while I sleep and I'm not arguing against residual income, I'm just saying, you know, it's it's there, there still has to be effort.
Like I heard Rex Tillerson and not to pick on him. They were former CEO of Exxon mobile, but. You know his, and I think there's some things that are there. Maybe some things are holding true right now today that maybe do this, that they could learn from it. And that thing all the physical are from, but they were asking him, what, what is your, you know, what is it that you're going to do as, or what w what do you do as a company?
What's your purpose? And he's like, well, our purpose is to make money. And I argue against that. And especially in the ESG side and the professional side, because [00:29:00] what I think is, again, I think it's incomplete. You have to provide services and products and do all those other things for. Right. It didn't allow you to be profitable at the end.
And if we, if you show up at the 11th hour and you're just somebody who just you're, you inherit this, this, this beast, and all you gotta do is turn a little couple knobs here and there to go a bit more out of it. But you don't understand any of the mechanisms that are making it happen. And I think you do that enough times and it just, it's not synergistic.
It's not sustainable. It's not S it's not community. It's not, there's no connection. And you just, you just, it's a one-way street. And then what happens, know things deplete, and you don't have any. I
[00:29:38] Jessica: think a lot of people are scared about this artificial intelligence coming in and taking all of our jobs.
And I think this is exactly the reason why we shouldn't fear that. Just because there's always going to be this human connection that is absolutely imperative for us to keep growing as a business, as a person, as a family. So,
[00:29:57] Sean McCoy: no, and, and I think it's also important to [00:30:00] understand, so I, for just a minute, so one of the, one of the people we've interviewed for our podcasts, Nvidia, the graphics design, the graphics they're known for that.
Well, they're in the whole business to their Nolan gas through. Presence, but they use this deep learning technology around artificial intelligence. And so what it basically does, it's a whole nother level of computing. So it's not just data accumulation. What AI really is doing is it's actually helping augment that the, the, the, the process of understanding that data and what it means, and then super specific applying it, like you to walk into a restaurant, say you had your phones on you, and they could tell my facial recognition and everything else like, oh, you know, here's Jessica and Dave.
And from that and allowing for, you know, for information sharing, you know, being agreed upon, they could pull up, here's all the stuff that you've eaten either at that restaurant or in general restaurants like it so that AI can now start to compute those things and work on those things and really kind of process beyond just beyond just the list.
But now what can I do with it and how can I then be smart with it and, okay, well, if I apply this and [00:31:00] what's a norm, maybe I just pop in a text message on her phone saying, Hey, you know, we know you love in America. Know, get one today with a, with a meal. Well, you know, we'll pitch it, throw it in for free or whatever.
So it's much, it's much more, that's what it's, it's supposed to do, that it heal. And that all happens, you know, as you're walking in the door versus the person behind the counter, figuring out that on their own, which is kind of the old school way. But no matter how hard, no matter what happens there, there still have to be, there has to be people on the other side of it to do something with it.
You can't totally automated everything. What is
[00:31:35] Dave: interesting too, going back to talking about like the trees, weathering, cause they didn't have the resistance and um, and our society in the last, like since the industrial revolution, um, more and more, we're seeing less work and more leisure time and that's kind of where society and culture is going.
It's more about like, are you're talking about the goals. Have a residual income and you can go lay on a beach in Hawaii or whatever, but [00:32:00] at the same time, we're seeing higher and higher levels of depression and anxiety and fear and all these things. And I have to believe there is some correlation between the two.
And then I think we're, we were made for work. And like we were saying, work is what brings some of that transformation and that growth. And I think the more that we try to. Work in and of itself is, could be a dangerous thing to, so, um, thanks. Just think it's fascinating. How a lot of times the goal is to work less and I'm all for working smart and not harder necessarily, but to eliminate work in and of itself, I think can be a dangerous thing sometimes too.
[00:32:40] Sean McCoy: Well, how did it feel? Getting ready for this podcast or for any episode that you recorded? Not mine, particularly, but just having that something to grind against. It's like an engine without a load, right? It doesn't help it. It actually makes it work and actually takes it down faster. And so there was a gentleman had on my podcast, way back in the music, it can become a real good friend of [00:33:00] mine.
His name's John Aguilar, and he's a dry stone Smith and a drystone Smith is the joke is it's the second oldest profession because it uses rock without mortars, without mortar. And it basically is cut the fit if you've ever seen it. Right. Machu Picchu, the pyramid, stuff like that. Yeah. Well he, he does it modern he's a modern day.
Like he does that kind of stuff and has done amazing stuff that I show people in her. Like it defies gravity. It's like, it there's something about it. There's even something spiritual anthro. Like you're looking at it like this is, I feel something it's just rock right. But we, we connected over an article that he had published on this one.
Uh, this, this group, I was a part of through this other podcast years ago, it was really this, this experience, like you're saying of, uh, abundance without connection, this, this, what are we doing? What are we doing? And they're arguing all these sociologists and be like, they're going, Hey, Hey, Hey, you're you're, you're, you're just like, you're saying, you know, you've never had more.
But you've never had less. So what, what does that, how in the world does that mean? And it just simply [00:34:00] is because it's just like sitting here talking to you all it isn't 20, 35, 25, 30 minutes. The, the augmentation of that liquid we were, if I were to be in the same city and up and up and visiting in Pennsylvania and what happened, you know, Hey, let's grab a cup of coffee just right now.
That would be worth worthwhile. Not that wouldn't have been worth while before, but just right. And then you do that a couple more times. And now all of a sudden it's like, there's something happens, but you can't get that. You know, sitting on the world's most expensive couch and the world's most expensive home, a hundred miles from the nearest person it's just not gonna happen.
[00:34:33] Jessica: And I think this past year, the pandemic has showed us how important connection is and real life together and hiss. And now everybody's just craving that. Yeah,
[00:34:43] Sean McCoy: well, we'll think it like this ESG thing, or like, if you look at what came to your point. Exactly. Jessica, what, what came to fruition from this?
Here we are. If there's ever been a moment where it should have been profit and profit only, it's all about survival. Nothing else matters. You know, we just gotta get through this and all of a sudden, all these [00:35:00] social and environmental and cultural issues, they're the things that got brought to the surface by this, right?
Not, not pushed to the side. Yeah, because they matter because it, and I think that's, we have to, and they, if they, if we can just truly give them, give all of that credence and bring it alongside, it's not about getting rid of one, it back to the dualism. It's not about getting rid of the other there's there's has to be room for, for both at the table for all those things at the table.
[00:35:30] Jessica: Well, Sean, before we go. And I know, um, you've really said so many great things and information for our listeners. Um, if you can leave them with one thought as they are pursuing their dreams, as they're exploring, dreaming, discovering what it is that they are on this earth. And they're meant to do you have a moment to speak right into their heart?
What would you say to them?[00:36:00]
[00:36:00] Sean McCoy: Of your story, understand that you are the hero of your story and own it and live it and give yourself that breath. And the world will not. We, the rest of us will never be able to benefit unless you are able to define the answer to those three inching questions for yourself. You know, what is w what brings harmony?
What has beneficial and what is beautiful and go find those things, but find them for you and, and be the hero of your own.
[00:36:27] Jessica: Perfect. That's a perfect way to end the show. So again, thank you so much, Sean, for being on the show with us, we appreciate your time and your expertise, your knowledge and your wisdom.
[00:36:37] Sean McCoy: You're welcome. I love what y'all are doing and, and everybody out there, I would just encourage you to come back and listen. I I've become a fan of the podcast and what y'all are doing. And in these, in this time is worthwhile. So I thank you for it.